home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
Floppyshop 2
/
Floppyshop - 2.zip
/
Floppyshop - 2.iso
/
diskmags
/
0022-3.564
/
dmg-3413
/
news.txt
/
letters.asc
< prev
next >
Wrap
Text File
|
1989-04-05
|
14KB
|
269 lines
¯|¯ ¯|¯¯¯¯| |¯¯|¯¯| |¯¯|¯¯| ¯|¯¯¯¯| ¯|¯¯¯\ /¯¯\
| | | | | | | \
| |--| | | |--| |___/ \
| | | | | |\ \
| | | | | | \ /
|___| _|____| __|__ __|__ _|____| _| _\_ \__/
∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ SPRECHEN SIE GFA ? ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Being interested in programming rather than programmes, if you see
what I mean, I recently bought GFA Basic and am having some fun with
it ( now that I have found out how to change the screen rez ) rewriting
some of my older progs which have been done in all sorts, from the
Dragon 32 basic, through MSX, GW Basic, Fast Basic and STOS. Not
forgetting the odd bit in LOGO on the way.
The GFA is 3.5 with the compiler and I must say it is good to have a
firm Teutonic discipline imposed on what would otherwise be my usual
Spaghetti. I especially like the way that Procedures can be folded.
I got a whole lot of GFA source code disks from The ST Club
intending to learn the quick way, unfortunately the version in which
they are written is not compatible with mine. The extension is BAS and
they're obviously from another age.
However, one of the disks was worth the price of them all together.
It was GFA Expert ( GFA.09 ) and this I found to be a really good buy.
It has an on disk 'Second Manual' which I printed out.. 122 A4 pages !
It also has some very good procedures built in and it is helping me no
end in using GFA.
regards,
David J Fright
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
STEN: I'm glad to see that you've seen the light and bought one of
the best packages available David. GFA BASIC can put many other 'more
powerful' lanuages to shame for both the number of commands available and
speed.
Many readers of STEN will know about the GFA Expert disc which I was
raving about way back in the early days. In fact I got my copy from GFA
themselves who said they wanted to sell it commercially as it was so
good, but the author was content to increase the knowledge base and that
it should be PD.
The problem converting programs written in GFA ver.2 to ver.3 is
easily overcome. Get a hold of a copy of GFA BASIC ver.2 (it's now PD),
load the program and then save it as an ascii file (.LST). It can now be
merged into ver.3 and run as all ver.2 commands are supposed to be
compatible with those in ver.3
DAVE MOONEY
~~~OOOO~~~
Robert Gilmour
(Outlaw Pds)
174 Primrose Lane
Rosyth
Dunfermline
KY11 2UW
tel:(0383)411157
22/06/92
Dear Dave,
I felt I had to write this letter after reading John
Weller's views on smaller PD libraries. As you know, I run a small PD
service for people on a low income and I would like to point out that I
do care about providing a good service and take as much care as anybody
else in making sure that the software in my catalogue works to the best
of my abilities.
I buy in software from the bigger libraries when I'm able to and
offer it out at a reduced rate to anybody that wants it. Mr Weller
seems to forget that everybody has to start somewhere so why not
give the smaller libraries a chance?. I get the impression from his
article that at some point he had a bad experience from a library, but
one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch!
I don't pretend to be a library but I'm sure I speak for most
of the smaller operators when I say that I'm as much of an ST
enthusiast as anyone else and I got pretty angry when John assumed that
smaller libraries don't give a damm.
I started up my service because I wanted to offer something to ST
users and not because I wanted to get rich quick!!. Because of my small
size I feel that I can offer a good service simply because I have the
time to answer letters properly without being snowed under by piles
of orders unlike some of the larger libraries who might otherwise only
be able to give a brief reply. I speak from experience by the way!
I've been operating locally for nearly 7 months now and I
have no intention of just suddenly giving up, but if there is one thing
that might make me pack it in it's the attitude of Mr Weller and others
like him who don't want to give the smaller guys a chance. I don't have
many customers but the ones I do have keep coming back to me so I must be
doing something right eh?...........
Along with this letter I've enclosed a copy of my catalogue disk
and I would be interested in your comments on it's contents. We can't
all afford to pay £3 a disk for PD so all I'm trying to do is to make
the software available to those people (like me) who can't afford the
prices asked by the bigger libraries.
I was also interested to read that you personally disagree with
some of what Mr Weller said and would be grateful for this chance to
put my own point of view in the next issue of STEN.
Yours Sincerely,
Robert Gilmour
---ooOoo---
STEN: Thanks for your letter, Robert. It seems to require two
answers, one from John and one from myself. While the guys who put STEN
together and even the people who read or contribute articles have a
common interest, it would be stupid to claim that they act and think
exactly alike. In fact this is what the letters section of STEN is for.
If you don't agree with something that was said in the mag then write
and tell us. Your letter will be printed, even if it goes against what
we believe in. The only rules are that everyone has a right to reply
and the matter will be closed if the argument degenerates into a
slagging match.
My personal point of view is that libraries of any size
should be considered seriously as long as the service that they
provide if good. Unfortunately this is not the case in the majority of
instances. Far too many are being run on a wing and a prayer and the
only people who suffer are the punters who have to put up with the
hassle when the library stops operating for whatever reason -
financial troubles, lack of time, ST broken down, new girl/boy
friend...
I often get requests from the smaller libraries asking to be put
into our list of recommended PD libraries. When I reply explaining that
nobody gets there without first proving they have staying power and are
prepared to put a bit more into the scene other than simply selling
discs I usually hear nothing more.
This has made us adopt the following policy with regard to
anyone wanting to advertise in STEN.
1 - The advertising copy must be submitted before every issue. Nothing
will be repeated automatically.
2 - If a service is being provided an example of the product should also
be sent. (eg a disc catalogue)
3 - It is up to the service provider to make all the running. If an effort
is made to get publicity then there is a good chance that an effort
will also be made to provide a good service.
We will review any PD catalogue that is sent and any
comments or observations will be absolutely fair, but if anyone thinks
otherwise then the letters section is there for them to say so.
What *EVERYONE* who provides a service must remember is that it is
not up to Joe Bloggs to support them just because they exist. They have
to put a lot of time and effort into earning that support.
This involves writing to anyone who you think could give a
little publicity (magazines disc & monthly, free adverts in local
papers, computer clubs, etc), creating the best catalogue possible with
decent descriptions of the software and, as far as possible, what
computers they will work on.
If you do this and stick at it you library will get a good
reputation and respect. It won't come overnight and it won't be easy. I
hope you do buck the trend Robert and make a go of your library as it
could prove useful to users on a tight budget.
Dave Mooney
STEN: Thanks for your letter, Robert. (And the name's John, by the way,
not Mr Weller.) I've covered all of this before, but let's set it out
once again... The reason I advise people against dealing with most
smaller P.D libraries is based solidly on experience. In the four years
that I've been involved with the ST I've heard any number of complaints
from other users about small libraries, but only *one* about any of the
'commercial' libraries.
For eighteen months I ran a small non-profit-making library called
Enthusiasts' P.D, and I often received catalogues from other libraries
who wished to swap discs. With one or two honourable exceptions, most of
these libraries were run with the least possible effort, which even
extended to copying the descriptions of discs from other libraries'
catalogues. No names, no pack drill, but one small library that I
swapped with regularly told me that, "No, we don't virus-check our discs,
there's no need for that." Another library had disc 'descriptions' that
read, "Disc 10: plenty of utilities. Disc 11: even more utilities".....
"Yes, but that was two years ago", I hear you say, "and my library's
totally different." But how do we know that? As Dave said, any respect
from users has to be earned, and anyone setting themselves up as a
library is, to all intents and purposes, saying that they are an expert.
I don't see that you can complain if anyone says, "Prove it; show that
you're adding to the P.D resource, rather than milking it."
Which brings me to the second point. The reason why the
'commercial' libraries have to charge up to £3.00 per disc is because of
their extra expenses. They have to pay 'phone bills for downloading
software from America and Germany, they have to spend time checking what
machines the programmes will run on, they have to pay several hundred
pounds a time for quarter-page magazine advertising, and on top of that
they have all the extra business costs such as staff, VAT, Insurance and
premises. Mike Goodman of Goodmans PDL once told me that his library
hardly made a profit, and that the only reason he continued with it was
as a way of advertising his other concerns.
What I'm trying to say here is that I've seen both sides of the P.D
coin. I've been a librarian myself, and had to give it up because of the
amount of time needed to run it conscientiously: I've dealt with and seen
catalogues for most of the small libraries, and didn't know whether to
laugh or cry in most cases: I've talked to most of the 'commercial'
librarians and have seen the amount of work that they put in. On this
evidence, I'd advise users to support the 'commercial' libraries who are
originating discs and translating Doc files, and ignore the smaller
libraries who just want to take money and add nothing to the PD resource.
I'm not telling users what to do (and the ST community is too
intelligent for me to get away with that, even if I tried), but I *am*
advising users, on the basis of wide experience, to think carefully about
which libraries they give their money to. Do they want to support 'disc-
shifters' with cut-rate prices which are stealing other libraries' work,
or do they want to support long-established libraries which are liasing
with programmers and are adding to our shared resource.
And in case you think the word 'stealing' is going over-the-top, why
do you think that most of the larger libraries now have a message in
their catalogues to the effect that, "This catalogue text is © xxxxxx
PDL" ? The reason is because they were sick and tired of seeing the
results of their cataloguing and testing appear verbatim in other
people's catalogues. PD software may be free to anyone who needs it, but
other people's hard work and conscientiousness certainly isn't. If a
library can't even be bothered to write its own descriptions of discs
that it's included in its catalogue, then how much effort do you think
they're likely to put into other areas of their service? I rest my
case....
John Weller
~~~~~eof~~~~~